Monday, July 7, 2008

PvP epics versus PvE epics

I posted yet another rant on
Cassock wrote:
Shadowpriests can craft all of their gear, so they don't have to PVP for it. Other classes can't, or can't as easily, so the enormous ilevels from the PVP gear is pretty enticing.

Okay, I hear that excuse quite a bit but I don't in any way buy it. Please don't take the following as a flame, as it isn't, inasmuch as it is a wall-of-text rebuttal.

First, and most obvious, is that plenty of people seem to have made it to 2.4.x and all of the progression bosses without needing to be in full PvP gear because it was their only option.

Second, let's break down the first part of that argument about SPriests being lucky about craftable gear. Sure, I'll grant you that FSW is epic in many ways and probably OP for when we get it. But let's look at the rest ...

Instead of using the Casual Gear thread, which hasn't been updated in a while, let's use this list.

Spellstrike: A boatload of Spellcloth, another boatload of Primal Mights, and a pair of Primal Nether. Primal Mights take 5 Primals each, and are thus the easiest to get ... for a definition of easy that means "farm, baby, farm". Primal Nether are quite a bit more expensive when you can find them on the AH, presuming you don't pony up the 10 Badges for them. 10 Badges? Yeah. Each.

Battlecast: No Spellcloth, but don't think you are saving yourself any farming -- you need roughly as many Primals. Still need those Primal Nethers, so there's still a 20-Badge hump in addition to farming for gold/Motes.

Sure, 20 Badges isn't too bad for a two-piece gear set. Okay, it's dirt cheap. But stop and think about when your SPriest is working on this -- probably while gearing up for Kara/Heroics/ZA. Thus, figure a +shadow range between 700 and 1100? Given that kind of range, how much gold can you make per hour? I figure 100g to 150g per hour if you really crank it, based on personal experience. Farming Motes will get you to Primals without the AH, but I'd argue that the "per hour wage" would be equivalent. That's roughly 5 Primals or one Primal Might per hour, right?

For each item in those two sets, we're looking at 10 Badges (two Daily Heroics) and 5 hours of farming. Per piece. You can't tell me that other classes can't spent the same amount of time and get an equivalent piece of gear. If they can't craft anything and must buy Badge gear then those 5 hours can go to Heroics. In even the worst PUGs, no Heroic will take more than 2 hours. Thus, 10-15 more Badges in those 5 hours, for a total of 20-25 Badges in the same time period. Hey, look, 25 Badges -- that's where the gear starts.

Belt of Blasting ups the ante to 2 Nether Vortex at 15 Badges each, for a total of 30 Badges and 15 Primal Fire. If we go with our rate of 5 Primals per hour, then that's 3 hours of farming, or converted into Badge-hours, between 5 and 10 Badges. The belt is then worth 35-40 Badges, even more than the other pieces.

From here on out, we're pretty much done with the crafting. If we go all-out and fill the rest of our slots with Badge gear, what are we looking at?

SPriests will spend between 341 and 569 Badges to get the best gear. A fully Badge-geared tank will spend 541 Badges. A Druid will spend between 410 and 745 Badges depending on spec.

Point being, we're not much better off as far as how many badges we're going to farm versus any other class. And, I'd argue, we make up for that time farming gold or mats for the FSW.

So what about PvP gear? Does that really take less time to get?

For a full set of S2 Warrior gear you're going to need 65250 Honor and 130 Marks of Honor. That's a per-piece average of 13050 Honor and 26 Marks.

BG farming will run you between 1000 and 2000 Honor/hour, so we'll be nice and say that you could meet the honor requirements for one (average) piece after 7 hours of BG farming. If you played only premades and always win you could probably farm 8-10 marks an hour or so? Thus, the limiting factor there is definitely the honor. Also remember that Honor-farming and Mark-farming are somewhat inversely related: sure, you can premade a zerg win, and you'll get Honor and Marks for the win, but you'll be missing out on the Honor for the kills. It averages out.

But, oh look. What did we say? A minimum of 7 hours of Honor-farming per piece. Scroll up. Look familiar?


The argument that PvP epics are easier to get than PvE epics is completely false. It all takes roughly the same amount of time, whether Badge-farming, Honor-farming, or mat-farming.


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