tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8245048376029073452.post6659488430726082038..comments2008-10-26T21:53:29.966-04:00Comments on Apanthrope, Shadow Priest: On Priest CCapanthropesphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14737643841213452002noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8245048376029073452.post-70461425775512704972008-07-09T23:38:00.000-04:002008-07-09T23:38:00.000-04:00"I'm not sure who exactly your exasperated tone is..."I'm not sure who exactly your exasperated tone is supposed to address"<BR/><BR/>As I move further into the Heroics where multiple forms of CC are more required than ever, I find that while everyone "gets" Polymorph and Freeze Traps, Shackle and MC seem to make them stumble. I plan on Macroing the URL for this so that when I get into PUGs where people keep breaking my Shackle or yell at me for standing at one side of the room with an MCed melee mob while they are tanking on the other side of the room. (Hence the verbiage more aimed at non-Priests.)<BR/><BR/>"If the Priest is not pulling, then Priest CC is more like Hunter CC than Mage CC" --- "This doesn't make any sense to me at all."<BR/><BR/>I guess I should revisit the wording there. I should have been more explicit. I was speaking to a tank's POV: a tank is used to Hunters intentionally getting aggro for a second to do their thing. Mages, on the other hand, will generally Poly so that the mob is on the far side of the tank, not the near side. That is, immediately. I may just have weird mages on my server, but I almost never see them tap the mob before applying a Poly.<BR/><BR/>Thus, when the tank sees the blue-square mob streak by them they tend to not think about it until something very bad happens. However, if the moon mob goes running by the tank takes immediate notice.<BR/><BR/>In those cases, Priests tend to be more like Hunters than Mages, in that we tap our mobs to bring them to us. Depending on positioning, sure, you might not tap the mob for MC, but if you aren't pulling you'll almost certainly have to tap the mob for Shackle.<BR/><BR/>"they do it because traps are "melee range""<BR/><BR/>This was my other point much later (I even used the same word: range). Traps and MC have a range component that Poly does not. Sure, it's not point-specific like a Trap, but nor is it anywhere in the room like Poly. (And the closer you can get the mob to you, the less time you spend running back to your own body.)<BR/><BR/>In re MC range and breakage: <A HREF="http://misery-blog.blogspot.com/2008/02/mind-control-for-megalomaniacs.html" REL="nofollow">Misery</A>, <A HREF="http://thottbot.com/v820679" REL="nofollow">ThottBot</A>. Also, personal experience, albeit anecdotal. When I run back to my own body I almost never have an early break. When I run around more than 10-15 yards out, certainly less than 30 or 40, I almost always have an early break.<BR/><BR/>When I <A HREF="http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=13002&sid=49e95e96f2550dc121ec937440402daa" REL="nofollow">first started using MC in dungeons</A> I remember finding a page talking about how the MC heartbeat check was based on Spell Hit and Range. Of course, now I can't find it.<BR/><BR/>In re diminishing returns, <A HREF="http://www.wowwiki.com/Diminishing_Returns" REL="nofollow">WowWiki agrees with you</A>. But, again anecdotally, I've noticed that when I have to re-MC something, it almost never lasts the full 60s, even if I am standing in front of myself.apanthropesphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14737643841213452002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8245048376029073452.post-1458329337009031562008-07-09T19:53:00.000-04:002008-07-09T19:53:00.000-04:00Interesting article, though I'm not sure who exact...Interesting article, though I'm not sure who exactly your exasperated tone is supposed to address. A few things I found unusual:<BR/><BR/>"If the Priest is not pulling, then Priest CC is more like Hunter CC than Mage CC"<BR/><BR/>This doesn't make any sense to me at all. The only justification you gave is that you want the mob to be away from the group to allow for AoE spells - but mages want that, too. Not only that, but that's not the primary reason hunters pull mobs to themselves (although it certainly is a concern) - they do it because traps are "melee range", and they need to maintain aggro on the mob so it will move towards them when it needs to be re-trapped.<BR/><BR/>Priests can apply at range without a cooldown, like mages. Priests can choose a specific target to CC instead of an area, like mages. Proximity to the mob does not matter, like mages. You can refresh the duration of your CC by recasting, like mages. I can't think of any real differences between shackle and polymorph at all (well okay, the healing aspect and the random wandering), whereas hunter traps have some fairly unique properties.<BR/><BR/>"Every tick that goes by the mob has a chance to break the Mind Control early. That chance is increased by the range between the Mind Controlled mob and my Priest body."<BR/><BR/>I'd like to see a citation for this, because it's the first time I've ever come across this idea. A lot of CC abilities have "heartbeat resist" mechanics like Mind Control, and I've never seen any evidence to suggest *any* of them have the tick chance affected by range. Yes, mind control is guaranteed to break if you run too far away from your mob, but apart from this the chance to break early is *entirely random*. That matches my experience, too, but if you have any strong evidence to the contrary I would love to see it.<BR/><BR/>Also note that if you're a dwarf priest, chastise can be a handy way to keep a mob off you for a few seconds to get that MC recast off.<BR/><BR/>"Mind Control is subject to diminishing returns with many mobs, just like most other CC"<BR/><BR/>Actually, in PvE, almost no crowd control is subject to diminishing returns. There are a few exceptions (cyclone), but DR doesn't apply to any of the things you think of as primary CC, such as polymorph, sap, fear, etc.chronichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00993654827318271626noreply@blogger.com